Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt?

No American should be proud of what was reported by CNN today.

I am ashamed.  We like to think that the American way is what the world should follow.  The great Americans set the moral example for others to prosper.

What a bunch of fools we are.  How empty we are, morally and spiritually.

Don't think so?  Consider what follows:

Barack Obama has spent a record breaking $60 million to run more than 100,000 political television ads in pursuit of the Democratic presidential nomination, a new analysis conducted for CNN shows.

In contrast, John Kerry ran a little more than 19,000 TV ads four years ago in his successful bid for the Democratic nomination, according to TNS Media Intelligence/CMAG, CNN's consultant on political television advertising spending.

Kerry wrapped up the nomination in the first week of March 2004, while there is no end in sight in the battle between Obama and Hillary Clinton for the right to be the 2008 Democratic nominee.

Clinton, who trails Obama in fundraising by about $60 million, has run just over 60,000 TV ads in her bid for the White House.

. . .

In Pennsylvania, Obama has spent more than $3.6 million, while pouring another $600,000 into North Carolina and $800,000 into Indiana for TV ads, according to CMAG. So far, Clinton has spent $1.4 million in Pennsylvania, just under $200,000 in North Carolina and just recently went on the air in Indiana.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 8/04/09/obama-shatters-ad-spending-recor d/

And now we go backward in the general election campaign, spurning ANY effort to limit the influence of money in our political system.

While presidential candidates have rejected public financing in primaries, no major party candidate has bypassed the system in the general election since the program was created in the wake of the Watergate scandal in the 1970s.

At the same time, the invitation to Obama's fundraiser Tuesday specifically asked donors to contribute money only to the primary election effort. Obama has raised more than $8 million for the general election, out of a total $234 million raised though the end of March.

"Our focus has always been on primary money," Gibbs said.

McCain, meanwhile, has returned money he raised for the general and is taking steps to build up the Republican Party's fundraising to assist him in the campaign.

Obama rival Hillary Rodham Clinton has raised nearly $22 million for the general election, out of a total of about $176 million. But Clinton has never suggested she would rely on public financing in the fall.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Oba ma_may_bypass_public_financing_04092008. html

Just like with global warming, rather than being smart and enlightened, we are regressing.  It just gets worse.  And we think we are progressive.

Way to go America!  Way to go Democrats!  We are no better than the corporate powers we love to criticize.  We are consumers who believe in excess.  It is sick and we will pay the price.

John Edwards was wrong.  It IS an auction, not an election.  The world deserves better than what we provide.  But we are too busy congratulating ourselves that we could care.  Just send in more money to the cause!



Display:


Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 4)

And why is this a sign of corruption?

The vast majority of the funds raised by Obama has come from small donors, like my spouse and I. Between the two of us, I don't think we've given $100 yet.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:09:17 PM EST

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

You are part of the solution. It matters where the money comes from.


by johnnyappleseed on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 1)

Not totally. When we have 36 million people living in poverty in our nation, babies going without adequate food and medical care, it is a disgrace that Democrats are spending this much money on a campaign.

We need public financing.


by NCDemAmy on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

I would love if there was a full system of public financing. But the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled, going back to 1976,  that you can't require  candidates to use public funds. The candidates have to have the ability to go outside of the public system if they want to do so. The Court sees this as a matter of protecting free speech.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 2)

If you cannot figure it out, that 100,000 television ads symbolize how out of control the process is, then there is not much I could say to convince you otherwise.

Next time it will be 250,000.  Why not?  people will just accept it, rather than say it is wrong.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

Personally, I like someone making a logical case for something rather than saying "if you don't see it, then I can't convince you."

How about trying to convince me? It might work. Believe me, I'm open to persuasion.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When something is so obvious... (2.00 / 1)

it's the best I can do to raise the issue.

What's sad is to see how many justify it.

So what is too much?  Is there a limit?  Shall we celebrate when the number reaches one million ads?

There is time to say enough is enough.  That is what the diary is about.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:21:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When something is so obvious... (none / 0)

So if I choose to donate $40 to a campaign I believe in rather than spend it on a new pair of shoes, going out to dinner or buying a new video game, this makes me a contributor to corruption in this country?

Well, why don't we go a step further and boycott buying Bill Clinton's book in which he made 50 million dollars?


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When something is so obvious... (none / 0)

I don't see what is so obviously wrong with informing the electorate about yourself and your issues, so long as the message is not being financed by monied interests with the ability to exert leverage on the candidate when he takes office.  I am open to be convinced that the donors who contribute to Obama's campaign can exert that influence, but it does not seem likely that the average donor giving 93 bucks can have that type of corrupting power.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 03:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You have to a$k that que$tion? (none / 0)

Everything about thi$ country i$ about $$$$$.  Can you imagine being poor in another country and realizing that our election$ are being determined by who rai$e$ the mo$t money.

Hell, you people are telling HRC to quit becau$e BO has rai$ed more money.

How very democratic of you!


by Shazone on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:14:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You have to a$k that que$tion? (2.00 / 1)

I never said that Clinton should quit because Obama raised the most money.

By the way, when Paul Wellstone was first elected to the Senate, he ran against an incumbent and was outspent at least ten to one.  But he won.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How big of you. Now what about... (none / 0)

this part of my comment:

"Everything about thi$ country i$ about $$$$$.  Can you imagine being poor in another country and realizing that our election$ are being determined by who rai$e$ the mo$t money."


by Shazone on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How big of you. Now what about... (2.00 / 1)

You've presented no evidence that this is true.

And I gave you an example where a candidate was outraised 10-1 and still won.

Money is often correlated with winning, but it is NOT everything.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How big of you. Now what about... (none / 0)

Carol Shea-Porter


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How big of you. Now what about... (none / 0)

Now I'm sure you would be arguing this point if....say....Hillary was winning this contest...right?


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:51:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How big of you. Now what about... (none / 0)

It's funny because she DID have way more money for a long, long time - and she's losing.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You mean the way Mitt Romney won? (2.00 / 1)

You know, the Republican nominee, Mitt Romney?

Oh, wait...


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, you're right. (none / 0)

Howard Dean was the richest candidate in the Dem primary in 2004. John Kerry had to re-mortgage his house.

And Dean went on to win the nomination.

Oh, wait...


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good diary, citizen53 (1.50 / 2)

The followers will attack, but you are right.  


by TomP on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:10:08 PM EST

Re: Good diary, citizen53 (1.66 / 3)

"The followers"????

I'll wait for my cult membership card while I drink kool-aid and wait for the next comet to ride onto off to the distant corners of the universe!


by mefck on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tom, was there ever a more ardent candidate backer (2.00 / 1)

... than your fanatical backing of John Edwards?

It's kind of funny when you make these kinds of comments about those backing another candidate.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Completely disagree (none / 0)

If the money comes from you and me, then I am all for money in politics.

The problem is when the money comes from Exxon and Texaco. I'm all for taking that money out of politics.


by johnnyappleseed on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:10:18 PM EST

You mean BO's bankers? (none / 0)


by Shazone on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:15:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not just Obama... (none / 0)

but all of us.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

FYI (none / 0)

Theme: Obama's words vs. actions, in context of his discredited oil ads in PA. Obama's ad says:

"I'm Barack Obama. I don't take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won't let them block change anymore. They'll pay a penalty on windfall profits. We'll invest in alternative energy, create jobs and free ourselves from foreign oil."

Duh!

Rooney: Obama says in his ad that he's never taken any money from oil companies. No one does, because it's illegal. Yet he has taken $213k from employees of oil companies. Two of his bundlers are top execs at oil companies. (See Newsweek on this or my earlier post.)


by Shazone on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:17:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FYI (2.00 / 1)

Oh, for christ-sake.  Not this again.

#1: Companies direct money to candidates through PACs.  Obama has taken $0 in PAC money

#2:  That $213k is from employees, as you mention.  Anybody from CEOs to gas station attendees.

#3:  $213k is <2% of the money he has raised.


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

John McCain's


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Relativism... (2.00 / 1)

It says what matters to us.

Need I remind you that Exxon cannot contribute?

We are getting worse, not better.  You think we would have learned something about how money corrupts.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Need I remind you that Exxon cannot contribute (2.00 / 2)

But the American Petroleum Institute and other industry lobbyists can.

You knew what I meant, but you chose to play a game.

It matters where the money comes from. Money does not corrupt absolutely. Yes - when campaigns are corporately financed, then the politicians are going to be beholden to the corporations and their profit motive over the will of the people. On the other hand, when the people finance the campaigns then the politicians will be beholden to the will of those same people.

Money is speech and until the SC changes that, then it is far better to have ordinary people financing those campaigns than lobbyists.


by johnnyappleseed on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:38:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am not playing a game... (2.00 / 1)

despite your assertion.

There cannot be relativism.  It must apply across the board.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:53:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 2)

Oh, and the article is wrong.  George W. Bush didn't use public financing.  He's a major party candidate, no?

Besides, the limits to those who take public financing in the general election are pretty meaningless since the national party organizations and 527s can spend as much as they want.  But not taking the money gives the campaign a lot more flexibility in messaging and decision-making, something I'd like our party's nominee to have.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:12:02 PM EST

So what? (2.00 / 1)

All we do is rationalize.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:16:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So what? (2.00 / 1)

Ads enable people to hear the candidates' messages. As long as the ads are accurate and have information that is useful for making voting decisions, why would it be wrong to have more of them, especially with the money coming from many, many small donors?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:19:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Messages? (2.00 / 1)

Like why my soap provides more lather?

It is all marketing and profiteering by the media and those who run campaigns.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Messages? (2.00 / 2)

It's called political speech.  First Amendment, you know?

What do you prefer? Less speech? A different sort of speech? Please explain.

But as you may know, you can't limit spending on ads if financing has not involved government money. The Supreme Court has said that for over 30 years, since the 1976 case, Buckely v. Valeo.
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1970-1979/1975 1975_75_436


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:31:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is a $2,300 limit... (2.00 / 1)

is there not?  That does not involve government money.

Political speech, defined by spending money, is a farce.  Let's be real.  It's time that we started living by our values.  The matter will not be addressed while we sit back and let it get worse.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is a $2,300 limit... (2.00 / 3)

You said the problem was too much spending.

You haven't said why that's a problem.

The $2300 limit is not a spending limit but a contribution limit and it promotes broadening the pool of givers which I consider a good thing.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is a $2,300 limit... (2.00 / 1)

Campaign finance is pretty complicated.  The $2300 limit is if you're outside of the public financing system. If you're in the public system, your funds come from the US treasury and you've accepted spending limits.

See more on this if you want http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_fi nance_in_the_United_States


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 2)

I for one am ashamed that the democratic candidates have relied on an unprecedented pool of small donors (average Americans) who want to bring change to the White House after GW Bush.


by mefck on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:12:12 PM EST

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

And spent almost one half billion in the process.  Aren't we great!


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:17:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

So? That means that more people have heard what the candidates have to say.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:20:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 1)

As compared to the billions and billions we spend on the Iraq war?


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:01:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No disagreement there... (none / 0)

but that is no justification either.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 3)

Me too.
How dare Obama inspire 1.5 million Americans to send him 90 bucks for something as corrupt as a new direction with new ideas?
Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Again... (2.00 / 1)

it's not just Obama.  It is about us as a people, and what is important.

Those Hummers sure make us safer.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:26:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again... (none / 0)

Hummers?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure! (none / 0)

We all drive our Hummers to Reverend Wright's church on Sunday.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure! (none / 0)

A wee bit silly...


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:48:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The point is that... (none / 0)

people will always find a justification.

I think the system is wrong and I am saying so.

It requires people to speak up or it never changes.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The point is that... (none / 0)

And I agree with you.

My preferred system would be that each candidate gets $X million from the Fed to use however they want for a campaign.
But that's it. No corporate, PAC, individual, or self financing. Period. No private funding at all.
And no 527 campaigning too.

Just my crazy little ides for, ya know, Democracy.


Let the children lose it Let the children use it Let all the children boogie
by toyomama on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cool (2.00 / 1)

I just wish there was more outrage about this.

That is a big problem I have with Obama and Clinton.  Neither really addresses this issue as something that matters to the health of our society.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 1)

Actually, the Hillary supporters should be very happy that this is true.

The MSM LOVES the fact that most people believe this is still a race, though the math is seriously stacked against Senator Clinton.

They get to run wall to wall coverage, and they sell tons of ad time LOCALLY which is an incredible boon.

But, as noted above, the critical item to notice is that Obama's funding comes from primarly from a very large cache of small donors. THAT is a real change, even from Kerry's campaign in '04.

That's, in reality, very good news for America
and shows that the Netroots has changed politics hopefully for the better.


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:19:22 PM EST

I'm confused (none / 0)

Is the diarist blaming Obama as the problem or is he just the symptom?

The idea behind public financing isn't that there are too many political ads. If ad prices were slashed by 1/2, even if we had a completely public process you'd still see too many ads on TV.

The reason there are so many ads in this cycle is b/c Obama had a low profile among the vast majority of voters in this country. That meant he needed to blanket the airwaves. Hillary on the other hand needed to respond to ads, lest it look like this is a race between Obama and the eventual GOP nominee.


by highgrade on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:26:01 PM EST

Kerry ran 19,000 (none / 0)

That is 5 times less just 4 years ago.

At that rate, in 2012, there will be 500,000, and that is just one candidate, not to mention the money.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry ran 19,000 (none / 0)

It's quite rare for trends to continue at the same pace year after year.  And again, what's the problem? These are constitutionally protected speech
according to the Supreme Court http://www.oyez.org/cases/1970-1979/1975 1975_75_436
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Supreme Court... (2.00 / 1)

held that separate but equal was permissible until 1954.

I suppose Thurgood Marshall and the NAACP should never have spoke up.

I find your argument that we should just accept what is wrong unpersuasive.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Supreme Court... (none / 0)

This court is not going to change the system.

And still no argument about why it's a problem to run a lot of ads.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:08:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry ran 19,000 (2.00 / 1)

Wow.  That is some crazy stupid logic.

Yesterday I had $1 in my pocket.  Today I have $100 in my pocket.  Does that mean tomorrow I will have $10000??  No.  I went to the ATM today.

You happen to completely ignore the fact that Kerry locked up the nomination on super tuesday, whereas this is the closest nomination contest in a long time.

I would have thought that was an obviously relevant point.


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So rationalize it... (none / 0)

I think it says more about how unprincipled we are than you do.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So rationalize it... (none / 0)

Wow.

Is this snark?  Is this whole thread snark?  because it really kinda seems like it.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here, man.


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are entitled to your view... (none / 0)

but mine differs.  I think you are just as off target with your attitude.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:53:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are entitled to your view... (2.00 / 1)

And I think you are pretty much insane to draw parallels from 2004 to 2008 and ignore the fact that at least three times as many states have been competitive.


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:55:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And I think your characterizations... (none / 0)

are over the line.  I respect your different view.  Note the word "respect."  Too little of that on the blogs.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 11:17:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

I'm proud of the Obama campaign for sending back this person's contribution http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/9/19145 2/3683


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:27:58 PM EST

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (2.00 / 1)

Yeah . . . that moved me to make another small donation to Obama!


NO 100 year WAR, NO McConnell run Senate, & NO GOP-led Supreme Court!!!
by Veteran75 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

Where's the corruption?  This country has 300 million people and a very large landmass.  Reaching those voters requires a lot of money.    In addition, the race for the presidency now takes a solid year to complete.  Pointing to various figures and stating that they show corruption proves nothing.


by rfahey22 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:41:03 PM EST

Kerry did it with 19,000 ads... (none / 0)

did he not?

Corruption refers to values as well as money itself.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry did it with 19,000 ads... (none / 0)

Kerry didn't have a opponent who was in running ads and within 10% of him through the whole primary.

He had it wrapped up on Super Tuesday, or did you forget that already?


by bawbie on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry did it with 19,000 ads... (none / 0)

This race is a hell of a lot closer than the one four years ago, at this point in time.


by rfahey22 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama and Clinton have raised... (none / 0)

$400 million and have placed 8 times as many ads.

I think that is way too much.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:30:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and Clinton have raised... (none / 0)

But you haven't explained why.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Because it is obvious on its face... (none / 0)

that it is about sales rather than what may be best for governance.  It also says a lot about our values, that we place the emphasis on the money and celebrity candidates.

I suspect you knew that all along, but prefer to be argumentative.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because it is obvious on its face... (none / 0)

As a voter I don't place ANY emphasis on money and you haven't presented any evidence that anyone does.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

...and to think, I was just criticized... (none / 0)

for not giving to campaigns.

I must be doing the right thing :D


by soyousay on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:32:18 PM EST

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

Without ads, how is anyone who isn't already famous supposed to run? If you aren't well-known, isn't advertising the way to do it?

I see zero corruption in this, and the diarist does nothint to explain any corruption.


by DamnYankees on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:52:47 PM EST

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

Exactly.  There's a jump in logic that happens here that the diarist has refused to explain upthread.  The argument proposed is that spending lots of money on political ads is a bad thing, yet it is something so obvious that if we don't see the problem it can't be explained to us.

What types of ads that are aired is important, but in regards to expecting everyone to get angry because a candidate is trying to let the voters know where they stand on issues... well, I just don't see the argument.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't see many issue ads out of the... (none / 0)

160,000 run by the two Democratic candidates.

This is a campaign where discussion of issues is not the priority, in the ads and elsewhere.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:50:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The corruption is pervasive in the system... (none / 0)

and with a system of public financing, there would be a much more level playing field.

I am astounded at the justification of a system that reduces candidacies to money as if that is a great thing.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:46:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The corruption is pervasive in the system... (none / 0)

Running lots of ads doesn't reduce a candidacy to money.  Why would it?

I used to support Clinton. Then, like one in five Democrats, I switched to Obama. I did it when I watched each of them speak post-Iowa and I decided that Obama was a transformative candidate. It had nothing to do with money.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are not the people who are most at risk (none / 0)

For each one of you, how many are swayed by ads that are created to manipulate people primarily using the tools of marketing, not information on issues?  These messages are aimed at segments of people to win votes.  It's a pure sales job directed at people who are mostly uniformed about the candidates and the issues.

To compare yourself to these uniformed people and how they assimilate information, then use it as the basis to dismiss what obviously is occurring here in the campaign and throughout society as a whole, represents a glaring weakness in your position to this point in the discourse.

What's even worse is is that you find the overall corruption of the system on behalf of wealth relatively acceptable.  It shows just how pervasive it has become as a norm and its antithetical to progressive values.  We talk about transformation, yet little is done or said to clean it up.  This is a not limited to one side or the other.  Politicians will not clean up the system until we demand it from ALL of them.    

To me, we head in the opposite direction from what we aspire.  Makes no sense to me.  I mean, no one even really cares enough to say a thing, let alone tell the candidates that it matters in defining ourselves as Americans.  Just do it.  Nike could not have said it better.  


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd like to see all of our Dem candidates take... (none / 0)

... a vow of poverty.

Or something.

I think we should only run monks.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:57:47 PM EST

We could probably do a lot worse... (2.00 / 1)

than with a bunch of egomaniac politicians.


by citizen53 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:35:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think 'egomaniac politicians' is redundant... (none / 0)

... in most cases, though I have known a number of truly wonderful dedicated people in politics including the late, great Senator Paul Simon of Illinois.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:50:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think 'egomaniac politicians' is redundant.. (none / 0)

And Paul Wellstone -- who was overspent by 10-1 but won election to the Senate.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:52:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any Wonder Why Our Country is Corrupt? (none / 0)

The thing that bugs me the most about this is, what has anyone ever really learned from a 30 second ad?

I loved the Perot infomercials.


by Dave B on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:27:07 PM EST

Think how many hungry kids we (2.00 / 1)

could feed, condoms we could distribute, or poor kids we could send to college, on the combined total of DEMOCRAT spending in the primary (what, about $300 million? ).

Obscene, is what it is.


Reasonable people can disagree.
by mnicholson0220 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 01:26:46 AM EST


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